Today I'm talking with Whitney Fitzsimmons, Director of News & Communications at KPMG. Whitney has had a fascinating and diverse career journey. At its core, is the belief that you really need to know what you want for YOU. It's the focusing on what you want, and then it's being deliberate in what you need to do to get there. What's more, you don't have to have all the answers on HOW you're going to get there!
Today I'm talking with Whitney Fitzsimmons, Director of News & Communications at KPMG. Whitney has had a fascinating and diverse career journey. At its core, is the belief that you really need to know what you want for YOU. It's the focusing on what you want, and then it's being deliberate in what you need to do to get there. What's more, you don't have to have all the answers on HOW you're going to get there!
Presenter: Gillian Fox
Guest: Whitney Fitzsimmons
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A lot of it is about knowing what you want, being really crystal clear on what you want, because if you vacillate, it's hard to kind of focus.
You are listening to Your Brilliant Career. I'm your host, Gillian Fox, executive coach, women's career expert, and entrepreneur. The podcast that teaches you how to get the most out of your career.
We talk tactics, tools, and stories that all help incredible women like you achieve the success you deserve. If you want to learn more about how to create the brilliant career you've always wanted, I encourage you to check out the RISE Program.
It's my four-month career development program. Through a combination of individual executive coaching sessions and group workshops, you'll discover how to overcome obstacles, create opportunities, and reach new heights in your career.
Today I am delighted to introduce you to Whitney Fitzsimmons.
I met Whitney at SBS, where I have spent a lot of time over the years working with various teams. I’ve loved that work. It’s a terrific organisation to work with. At the time I was working with people in the newsroom and that is where I bumped heads with Whitney. At that time, she was the creator and executive producer of Small Business Secrets.
Before we dive into the conversation today, I’m going to share with you Whitney’s bio, because I think you need the background here. Whitney’s career journey is not only fascinating, it is diverse. So, listen to this.
Today, Whitney is the Director of News & Communications at KPMG Australia where she runs a corporate newsroom of journalists and communication experts all tasked with communicating information across the firm.
Whitney is also a well-known TV news anchor across Australia and Asia. Google her and an abundance of beautiful pics of her presenting pop up. She spent over a decade as a journalist at the ABC and during this time, Whitney presented a whole range of different programs, including 7 pm News, Business Today, Lateline Business, The Drum, Weekend Breakfast, The Midday Report and The World. She was also a senior producer for the ABC’s award winning national current affairs program, Lateline, and has been a contributor to One Plus One.
She has interviewed so many international and national CEOs, celebrities, politicians, and newsmakers. In her spare time, she sings and is a devoted knitter. Didn’t see that last one coming, did you!
So, let’s dive and have this wonderful conversation.
Gillian: Whitney, hello and welcome to the program.
Whitney: Hi, Gillian. It's so nice to be here. Thank you.
Gillian: Absolute pleasure. I feel like I need to launch this with a very big statement and just explain to everyone that you are this former actor, this business presenter on TV, who moonlights as a jazz singer, and now has this very serious role as a director at KPMG. Few are as interesting as you will be.
Whitney: I'm not sure if I'm that interesting, but anyway.
Gillian: Well, I thought, because I feel like we need to unpack some of this, I thought we'd started at the beginning of the journey. I'm particularly curious about what was the pull to become an actor in those early years?
Whitney: I was one of those children who was a bit of an attention seeking missile. I don't know. Any opportunity to get up and perform in front of a group, and I'm talking about family reunions, cousins, neighbours, and then more formally at school, I would take it. It's odd because as I've gotten older, I'm actually quite a shy person. People don't realise that, they think I'm a massive extrovert, but I'm not. I actually like my own space and I'm an only child, so I grew up having my own space a lot. There was something I got from the choosing to perform and the energy that I would get back from the group of people who indulged me at that time.
I guess I grew up and I thought there were moments when I was in primary school or elementary schools, as we call it in the states. I wanted to be a teacher. I loved the law, and I thought about being a lawyer. Then, I thought, "Oh, I can just be an actor and pretend to be all of those things." Which is silly, but anyway, that was my thought process. I just always had it in my head that I was going to go to acting school. I knew I had to audition. It was highly competitive, but I was going to go, and there was no two ways about it. I just had a very singular view, and my folks were supportive of it. They didn't really ever say plan B, what's your plan B? That's the beginning.
Gillian: Was it everything that you hoped it would be?
Whitney: Interesting question. I started in musicals, I'm a singer, and I really loved doing that kind of stuff. Then, I wanted to be more, kind of a serious actor, so I didn't want to do musicals. I wanted to do drama, as I got older, it was just ridiculous.
Gillian: Why not? Why not?
Whitney: Musicals are fantastic. Anyway, and I auditioned for acting school. I did private acting school in Sydney at the Ensemble. Then, I auditioned for all the big schools, and I got into Nepean at Western Sydney University, and it was really competitive. I think a couple thousand people auditioned, and they picked 25. It was a really fantastic program. It was like being at fame school. You had two highly competitive practical exams. We were at uni all the time. These people who say full-time uni is like two days a week or something, we were there five days a week, even on weekends, doing rehearsals and stuff and living on campus or nearby.
The skills, it was really hard. It was a really hard course. The skills I learned; I still use today. A lot of them. I found the whole thing really valuable, but the industry itself, once I graduated and I was working as an actor and this is so naive and I still can't believe I didn't really think this, but I found it very superficial and pretentious. Because I trained to be a character actor, I played Gertrude in Hamlet. I played Elizabeth Proctor in The Crucible. I was very dedicated to the craft. Then, when I got out in the industry, I was being put up for commercials, ads with models or for roles playing the attractive girlfriend.
I didn't see myself as that role. I saw myself as a character actor, like a serious character actor. I found the whole casting agent, casting process, very confronting and also annoying, because they'd say things to you and you'd go, "I'm an actor. I can do ... " They'd say, "Oh, this person has blonde hair, and you have dark hair, vice versa. I'm like, "But I'm an actor. I can change". You know what I mean? It just seemed really shallow, and I didn't like that. I became really impatient and annoyed with the industry really quickly.
Gillian: Yeah, but better than persevering with something, that’s not going to ultimately give you that sense of fulfillment. But one of the things, there's a lot of things that impressed me about you, but one of them is getting a gig in front of the camera as a TV presenter, because I talk to a lot of women and there are women that want to transition careers. I would call that a career transition myself. It's a very different skill set and opportunity, but some industries are tough to crack. I would say at the top of the list would have to be TV presenting. How did you pull that off and was it what you thought it was going to be?
Whitney: What happened was, when I decided I wasn't going to be an actor, and honestly, that was a big deal for me because I had thought I was going to be an actor all my life, from when I was a tiny child. Then, all of a sudden what I thought I was going to do was not what I was going to do. I had an identity crisis. I was a bit like, "Oh, what am I? What's my purpose? What do I do?" Fortunately, I was raised in a family that was theatrical. Nobody was professional with it, but I remember there would be Sundays where my mom and dad and I we'd be arguing. My mom and I would be arguing with my dad. He'd want to watch 60 Minutes, which was in the States and we'd want to watch the Hardy Boys Mysteries. I have this massive love of murder mystery novels and politics and news and current affairs. I grew up and my wider family would debate politics with passion at the kitchen table and stuff. I really love news and current affairs.
I started to think, "Well, actually, I think maybe I want to do journalism". Because I felt also out of love with the craft of acting. I knew that that was it, kind of thing. I set my sights on working in news and mainly television because of my performing background, I'd had training in television and working on camera and stuff. That always appealed to me and also radio because I could use my voice and I had a lot of voice training and things like that through my first, my undergrad degree.
I was very fortunate. I got a gig with NBC working on the Olympics. Then, from there I got a gig working for CNBC as an associate producer and reporter. I was really not very experienced and yet I just backed myself. The other thing is, at the time business and finance was not a huge route, people didn't like doing it. Most journalists didn't like doing it because it seemed highly technical and boring. It was a way to get in without going and trying to be a foreign correspondent straight up or something like that. If you know what I mean.
Then, I worked in commercial television for a while as a producer and sometimes reporter, and then I got a gig, and this is the thing, you recognise you're going to have to ... There's sacrifices along the way to get where you want to go. For example, when I took the CNBC job, I took a pay cut, a massive pay cut, but it was to get the skill. Then I got this gig at the ABC. The shift was 12 midnight to 7:30 off air, which the program went to air at 7:30 AM. Then, we were off air at 7:30, so my shift finished then.
Gillian: That's a tough shift.
Whitney: Yeah, and I just come from Sunrise where I was doing 12 midnight to 9:00 am off air, but I wanted to go to the ABC. I really did. I thought, "You know what? This is my opportunity and I've got to take it". It's not really palatable to work those hours, the vampire shift as I called it, but I thought I can't be choosy. You got to take your opportunities where they are and they're not always wrapped up with a bow, so I did that. I didn't think I'd be at the ABC for three years, for 12 years, but I thought I'd only be there for three years. I ended up being there for 12 years.
Gillian: I have to say, I love the story of you securing your next big gig at the ABC at a time when you probably should have lost your job.
Whitney: That's right, yeah. They were doing some rationalisation. This was when I was doing that midnight shift and they were doing some... It was interesting though, because I was in the newsroom when the second Iraq war broke out, because it happened at 3:00 o'clock in the morning. These weird things, these wild things would happen and you're there and you're like, "Wow, this is really interesting". Anyway, yeah, so there's some rationalisation going on. That show that I was working on got wrapped up into another show and last in, first out. I was really new, and no one really knew me because I worked the vampire shift and I was like, "Ugh" and there was all these rumors going around who's going to go. I'm thinking, "Okay, I know I'm probably on that list because no one knows me in management".
I made a decision. We were all given the opportunity to have a meeting with the head of news and current affairs, the national head of new news and current affairs to talk about our future. Mine was at, I think three in the afternoon, which is when I would be asleep usually, because I was doing this midnight shift. I thought, "Okay, suck it up. Put on a suit. Put on your face. Put on your hair".
Gillian: Yeah. Get in there.
Whitney: "Just get your CV printed out and sort it out and go and see this guy." I walked in and I treated it like a job interview. I didn't treat it like an opportunity to whine about the fact that we were getting cost cutting measures, because I didn't feel that it was my place. I was so new. I didn't really know the lay of the land. I thought, "You know what? I've got to look at my ... What's the goal here?" The goal for me was to stay and to get more experience. I just said to him, I said, "Look, I know you don't know who I am because I work this shift and I've been here for about three months, and we've never met before. But this is who I am and here's my CV, and here's my show reel". I had a show reel at that time, "I'd like you to have a look at it. I really like being here and I don't want to leave, and I don't think you should want to lose me, actually. I think that I'm the kind of person that would be good. If there's any opportunities elsewhere in the newsroom, I'd like to be considered for them." He kind of looked at me like ...
Whitney: What planet did this person land from? Because I think he'd been in meetings where people were going a bit angry and all that kind of stuff, which is completely understandable. I totally get that. I'm not saying they shouldn't be. He looked at me with this half smile, and he's like, "Right. Okay". Then, he looked at my CV and he is like, "Right". He said, "Well, yeah, there might be an opportunity that's come up that I just need to look at, have a chat to somebody about. But yeah, I think you're right. You're probably one of the people that we would like to stay. You've got a lot of energy".
I left thinking, "Okay, well, let's see." Then, I had to go home, have a nap and get back there at 12 in the morning. That was when I got my gig as a senior producer on Lateline. I not only got to stay, I got promoted, which was nice. I was actually not working midnight shift anymore, which was great. That was an exercise in following your instinct. I thought, "Yeah, this is what I think I need to do here".
Gillian: You mentioned earlier that a lot of the things that you learned at acting school, they still serve you today. Can you see any parallels in that moment, that energy, that persistence, some of those things that are required to jump in the office and make those statements? How do you see your acting contributing?
Whitney: Well, it's the single mindedness. When I was going to be an actor, I was going to be an actor and I knew it was going to happen, and I did. I auditioned for acting school and got in. Many people do and they don't get in. Many people don't pursue it, and I did, and I worked. I was a working actor for nearly two years and it paid well. It's that single minded focus knowing what you want. I knew at that time I did not want to leave the ABC and I would do what I needed to do, within reason obviously, to stay. That was convincing this person that I actually was somebody that could do good work and they needed me.
Not in an arrogant way, but just in a way that was in service to the organisation. In my first voice tutorial when I did at acting school, it was like the first exercise we had to do was we had to present a piece to camera, talk about ourselves to camera. My voice teacher, and I'm not kidding, this is way before I even considered a role, a job in journalism. My voice teacher said to me, "Oh, you're so pleasant on camera. You seem so knowledgeable and pleasant, and you'd be a great news presenter."
I was so affronted and offended at that time. I was like, "What do you mean? No, I'm an actor. What are you talking about?" She was so prophetic. What happened for me, the process of getting that role, which started my decade of TV news presenting, I had it written down and I was really clear on what I wanted. I was like, "I want to be a TV news presenter, and I want to do international politics and a bit of business, that kind of thing. I had the salary level that I wanted." I just kept looking at that every single day and having... I had that in my focus. I had no idea, I'm not kidding, I had no idea how it was going to happen.
I honestly thought, I said to myself, I think I'm going to have to leave the ABC because I just don't see how they would have me presenting the news. Not because I didn't have the capability, although they didn't know that, but more so it was the accent, my accent, that kind of thing. It wasn't so popular back then. I had to modify it. I didn't have to; they didn't say that to me. I did it for myself just to moderate it and make it more understandable, but I focused on that. I focused on what I wanted. What happened was, and even in the moments where I was frustrated, I had a huge moments of frustration. Massive moments of frustration, where there were opportunities in the network that I didn't get that I thought I should have gotten.
For whatever reason, it wasn't the right opportunity and there were times I just wanted to quit. I wanted to go to another network. Every time that happened, I thought, "Okay, you are going to do this. You don't know how, but just keep focused on that." One day, we had an intranet job ads at the ABC and one day there was an ad on there for a 12-month maternity backfill presenter for the international news network in Melbourne, based in Melbourne. I was like, "Okay, that's interesting." Then, I thought, because it's a good chunk of time. I could get experience and stuff. Then, I slowly started to talk myself out of it. I started to say, "Oh, yeah, but they'll want to hire somebody from Melbourne. They don't really know who I am."
I almost did not apply. I almost did not apply. Then, I said, "What on earth are you thinking? Get your butt in there and apply." I did a mini, read a mini bulletin in the studio. I bribed the director at that time to do something for me and put that down on tape. It was back when they used to do a five minute news bulletin on Saturdays, which was a nice length, and then put that on tape. I sent in my application, and I got an interview. I remember thinking, "Okay." This is the thing. If I don't get something that I want, provided I've put in the effort, as much effort as I can put in and do the best I possibly can, then I accept that because what else can I do if I do the best?
But if I leave it all on the field, if I don't actually put in the effort, then I only have myself to blame. I did this interview and I had put a lot of work into trying to figure out what they wanted, because it's a bit hit and miss. Do they want to know about this? Do they want me to know about the Thai/Burma border issues? All that kind of stuff. I did the interview and I was like, "Okay, well who knows?" Then, I got a call. I got a call from the woman who became my boss and said, "We want you to come down to Melbourne and read the news." I was like, I couldn't believe it. I really couldn't believe it. I was like, "Wow, okay, this is actually happening now. This is actually happening." Then, it just happened from there. For the next 10 years I was on camera reading news or hosting shows in various forms, so yeah.
Gillian: This point around being single minded and having this very strong focus, it sounds like it served you incredibly well. I know you didn't like talking about this so much, but you've interviewed some incredible people as well around the world, from PMs, to the gorgeous Tony Bennett, to Richard Branson, all of those sort of things. You have been very successful even though you've had these very different roles throughout your career. What else do you think has contributed to your success?
Whitney: A lot of it is about knowing what you want, being really crystal clear on what you want, because if you vacillate, it's hard to focus. You flit around. It's really important to focus on what you want, not what you don't want, but what you want. Because oftentimes when you focus on what you don't want, you pull more of that toward you. It's the focusing on what you want, and then it's being deliberate in what you need to do to get there. For me, I couldn't believe they actually hired me to do that, because I was a terrible presenter in the beginning. Thank God not many people saw me here. At that time it was for an overseas audience, but I was pretty hilarious. It was like a full frontal sketch, really. It was quite funny.
Gillian: It would be very hard at first.
Whitney: Yeah, it was a very strange experience. But I think it's also being prepared to do what you need to do and also understanding what you need to do. Going, "Okay, I want to get to this point, working backwards, what do I need to get there? What do I need to do to get there? Do I need to study? Do I need to work on my presentation skills?" I used to watch my tapes all the time, all the time, and go, "Okay, how do I get better? How do I get better? How do I get better?"
My boss at the time, she was really good at that too. She helped me and she tried to help me to get better, and over time it did happen. I got better and better. I always had a bit of insecurity around my ability to write, because I didn't come through the traditional journalism school. It was like, "Well, what do I need to do to address that? Okay, well I'm going to go do a master's in journalism." I did a master's in journalism after I had been working in the industry for 10 years, yeah 10 years. A lot of the people I was doing the masters with were like, "You're working across the road at the ABC. Why are you doing this course?" But it was for me, and I learned things in there, the skills that I needed to make me better at my job.
It's recognising your gaps, your weaknesses, or gaps. Weakness isn't a great word, but gaps, knowledge gaps, experience gaps, skills gaps, and saying, "Okay, it's a practical application and it happens over time." You get better and better and better, it's like sport or anything. It's like acting. In acting you rehearse, and you rehearse and you rehearse and you get better. I really think that it's so easy to say, but I want it now. I'm probably the world's most impatient person, but I've learned that, "Look, yeah, I want it now, but it's not going to happen right now. You’ve got to put in the time."
Gillian: So, tell us a bit more about your role at KPMG. I know you absolutely love the role, you're very passionate about it. What lights you up about it?
Whitney: The thing about journalism is it's, and a lot of people will roll their eyes when they hear this, but it's a vocation. It's not just a job. For a lot of people who do it, it has a meaning to it. It has a lot of meaning to it, and it feels really good when you actually do a story that affects somebody's life positively. That's happened for me a couple of times and I felt really good about it. I had a positive impact on someone's life and that's really gratifying in terms of work fulfillment.
When you decide to move out of that space and go into something that's very, very different, it can cause a lot of angst. I will be honest, I'm now at KPMG and I'm in the corporate affairs team and I had been working or consulting to them for a number of years before I was offered a role. I always liked the firm, the people have always been lovely and it's just an interesting place. When I was offered the job, I was looking for something different. I was like, "Okay." I also had this thing of I'm a bit worried that I'm pigeonholed and media's a bit niche.
Also it's all very ... just there's a lot going on with the media industry that's not so great, if you know what I mean, with technology and rationalisation, and stuff like that. I was like, "Well, I wonder if I can transfer my skills into another area." It just, again, happened. I said to myself, I was like, because I started to get anxious about what my next move would be. Then, I said to myself, "Well, you're not going to do that this time. You're just going to calm down. The right thing will appear when it's meant to appear and just have faith in that." I kept saying that to myself. I know that sounds strange.
I also said, "It's going to take about a year for this to happen, so just focus on that." Then, I was consulting on this piece of work. My now boss said to me at one point, "Would you be interested in maybe working in-house with us?" I said, "Wow. Well, I'd be interested in discussing it." Literally, I'm not kidding, that happened toward the beginning of 2018, and I started with the firm in February, 2019. It took a year, and the right thing appeared at the right time. When I started at the firm, I knew I wanted to do this, but I still went through the process of going, "Oh, this is a very different environment. It's not like a newsroom." It's just a transition process.
I think anyone that goes from a very specific environment, that's quite newsrooms are tribal, it's a bit of a blood sport. You get used to that culture and then you go into something else, it takes some adjustment. I'm not saying that it's a bad thing. I think it's actually a good thing because it makes you more resilient and flexible as a person and particularly in your career. I started at KPMG in 2019 in the media relations team doing external media and looking after a number of portfolios and advising our experts in the firm around... to hone in on their messages and help them with that kind of stuff.
Then, my role changed around a year ago, where I started to lead a team, at that time when I started, I didn't have any direct reports. Now, I have about, I think it's about 11, where we do the news and communications across the firm. I also still do some media relations as well. What I find so interesting about my role now is, I've been able to take the skills and expertise that I have from newsrooms and apply it directly to how we tell our stories across the firm, and use editorial standards and guidelines and those forms of storytelling. We have a corporate newsroom with journalists, ex journalists from news organisations like me working in the firm to create the content that we have and the stories we tell.
It's just a really interesting and fresh approach, and it's very different. There are some places that are doing it. I think ANZ Blue Notes would be one, but KPMG, this is the thing and I know it sounds like I've drunk the Kool-Aid it’s not. It is honestly a place where it's very creative. That's the thing that surprised me about the firm. It's super creative and it's super flexible. There's a lot of really interesting people there and super smart people, working with people who are really smart. It's one of those places where they take advice from people who have expertise. I remember when I started, the guy who was the head of tax, and he was this lovely guy. He said, "Oh, I've Googled you. We're very lucky to have you." I'm like, "What sort of alternative plane have I stepped into where people actually say, we're really lucky to have you. You're really talented. It's so great to have your advice." Compared to when I've been in newsrooms, it's like, "Oh, you're lucky to get through the door." It's funny.
Whitney: Yeah. It's like whatever kind of thing, whereas working with all these people you're like, "Oh, no, you really know what you're talking about, and this is great." It's a really interesting place, it really is. It is so big and vast and people think, "Oh." They think they know what it is, but you don't know what it is until you're in there. Then you go, "Wow, we do that, and we do that, and we do that. Wow." It's a really interesting place to work. I'm lucky because I've got a great team and they're super smart, and they're super energetic. They like to do things new and different and tell stories in fun, new, interesting ways. I get a lot of energy from them as well. Yeah, it's a really fun place to work, actually.
Gillian: Whitney, what advice would you give to other women wanting to have a successful career, maybe a multidimensional career that spans across different experiences? Is there any kind of advice that you would share?
Whitney: Yeah. I was just thinking about that. That's so interesting because I guess I have had an interesting career in that I've done a lot of different things, but for me, I think maybe I get bored quickly. I don't know. I remember I said to my dad once, I want to be an actor, but I also want to be a painter and I want to be a singer. He goes, "Well, you can do all those things. You can do whatever you want." I was like, "Oh, okay." I was never told that I had to pick one thing, I think. That's why I keep moving around. What I would say to anyone, but particularly women, I would say that, firstly, you need to know what you want.
You really need to know what you want. That is beyond, you need to get clear on what you want for you. Not like, "Oh, okay, well I've got the kids and I've got my husband, or whatever." I think it's really important to know what you want for you, for your career. Because you can't then focus if you don't know what it is.
Whitney: You've got to be really clear on that. Then, you just have to focus on this and there are two things I would say, and I know they're cliched, but one is, and I love this statement that Martin Luther King said, was you just take the first step. You don't have to see the whole staircase. When I was trying to be a news presenter, I kept holding onto that. Just keep moving forward. It doesn't matter if it's a big step, baby step, whatever. Just keep moving forward and focusing on what you want. Eventually, things will move in the direction you want them to go in, and you will never know how it happens. Our brains trick us and say, we want to know, I need to have the map. I need to see how it's going to happen. You don't actually need that. You just need to know what you want to do and where you want to go.
Then, the other thing that's important is you need to back yourself. You need to really back yourself. You need to be really, really bold with that. I know that I said to people, "I'm going to be a news presenter. I'm going to be a news presenter." Friends that have known me for years, and I remember one, once I become a news presenter, she said to me, excuse me. She said, "I was really worried when you said that, because I thought you were a bit deluded."
Gillian: Well, you proved her wrong, didn't you?
Whitney: Yeah. But you know what I mean? It's that thing. When people say to you, you can't do it. See, I had a news director when I worked in commercial, looked at my show reel and I was asking her what she thought. She avoided it, and I finally nailed it down. I said, "Can you give me some feedback? Do you think I could have a shot at blah, blah, blah?" She said to me, she goes, "There are so many things on that tape that I do not like. I don't even know where to start." She said, "You'll never be a TV news presenter ever, ever."
Gillian: Yeah. Wow. Harsh. Harsh feedback.
Whitney: Yeah. I was like, "Oh, okay." I said, "Right." I left the room, and I was determined to prove her wrong. It's about really knowing what you want, then backing yourself and going, "No, I can do this." You don't have to have all the skills, but you have to have the confidence that you can carry something out if you commit to it.
Gillian: Yes.
Whitney: Those are the things I think that are really important.
Gillian: Yeah. I love it. I think they're fantastic messages. I think they're fantastic messages. Thank you so much for joining us today. It has been a delight and a lot of fun chatting to you.
Whitney: No worries. Yeah. It's been fun.
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